Otherwise, how can we say whether Jesus is happy with the plan, when we’re not even sure what that plan’s details are? I doubt even the Pope(who’s supposedly infallible or something) knows even 1%.

Not only that, you load the earlier two questions, just as dice is loaded, and you ask two questions, both of which are completely inapplicable to ‘Jesus’.

It is like asking a fish, “Did you enjoy flying with the eagles today?”, or a rock “How is your wife? Is she well after the pregnancy?”

Now, you asking a God who is supremely loving yet holy, infinite in power yet willing to offer freedom of choice: “Are you sad about your failure? Are you uncaring about us, and only caring about your spiritual real estate plan?”

A fish does not fly; it swims. A rock has no family; it is not living.

The God of the Bible does not fail; He overcame everything. The God of the Bible is no respecter of persons or situations; He is Lord over the Storm.

It may seem as though our ‘world is ripped from our children’ sometimes, but you know something? Considering the lousy way we’ve been taking care of Earth and our lives, there’s something much better:

The World rests in His hands. He knows well beyond what we see; our lives are but pinpricks to His timeless existence, and so He knows ultimately everything that is going on and why and what.

As an aside, I believe that just so we could decide whether to follow Him or not, so came the other decisions.

“Should we make war on others?”

“Should we make lives of others better?”

“Should we take what we want to take, by force?”

“Should we love our enemies even when they kill us?”

You see, the Plan doesn’t seem like much of a plan, yet it has be the most intricate one, because each one of us can decide whether to love and obey, or to hate and rebel. That choice is, IMO, the reason why your so-called ‘ineptness to bring about world peace and harmony’ is taking place.

I talk too much to someone who could be just a troll. XD

Jake

Is Jesus happy with his plan for Mankind so far?

mmm… not quite what I had in mind, but your point is duly noted, and you’re probably right that I haven’t looked hard enough. I’ll use those references that you have suggested.

The problem with your answer is that most people can’t dedicate their life to studying the literature of christianity. In a way, this answer only underlines the point that the complexity of the argument is designed to confuse people rather than clarify it. Why is it not more simple? It should be.

Again, I’d like to say that there is much in the “50 simple proofs” posting that I don’t agree with, and the repetition of many arguments contained therein is a form of hypnosis which I reject out of hand, yet despite this, many of the points are valid in my mind, and so they will be to many people who read them.

Certainly I’m not one to accept everything I read at face value, and I am in no way looking at this posting in order to make my mind up. I am, however, looking for someone to take the “proofs” and provide an argument against them. As I am someone who does not have the education in theology (or whichever background is best suited for the purpose) to be able to do this, I am looking for someone who has, or even someone who has not, but will try anyway. I am loathe to accept that christians will simply turn their heads and say: this is not worthy of a response.

(greetings to you all from sunny South Africa)

(Thanks for respectfully editing my post.)

If you seriously haven’t found any honest attempts at answering these questions you haven’t been looking very hard. There are over 2000 years of texts written addressing these arguments so exhaustive you could dedicate a lifetime in graduate studies to master them.

You can start by looking into Augustine of Hippo, Justin Martyr, Thomas Aquinas and end with C.S. Lewis, Norman Geisler and Lee Strobel.

Check these sources out before you allow others to make up your mind for you.

I’ve been reading through all of the “proofs” with some interest, and I do think that several of the arguments used there aren’t reasonable or fairly presented.

That having been said though, I haven’t found any responses from anyone within the faith that actually deal with any of his arguments head-on. Instead, much as you did, they pick out his most obviously silly points to try and discredit the argument.

Why is that, do you suppose?

(and you spell it: intelligent)

Thanks for the post bro.

I’m wondering in what way you feel my faith in God is hindering me from thinking for myself?

Why is it that his answers to the universe are better thought out than mine?